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Garrett Williams

The Community Status.

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This discussion will attain all topics regarding the future of the community and everyone's opinions. This is a discussion, You are encouraged to openly say what you think, Even if it goes against the majority's opinions. If you disagree with another posting, you may respond with a civil response. This is not an attack towards floppy, this is an attempt to help better our community.  This discussion is not going to pertain to suggestions already acknowledged by developers for example, "Storages". You may, however, speak about how they are implemented, For example, "Communication from the dev team to the entire community". This post is focused on the recent negatives on the community, Rather than appreciation. Multiple forum posts have been made regarding our appreciation. Therefore, any post made here is not to be assumed as unappreciative and rather their straight-forward personal input on what's been going on.

 

Personally, out of the years I've been here I've noticed a trend. The community will receive a surge of players and eventually fill up the server 24/7 and then after a few months, receive a downfall and then the trend resets. Needless to say, we currently are in a downfall after the blackout, this is due to our Former Lead Developer Amelia Knightly resigning from her position and Floppy's oversight of the community. Regarding oversight, Floppy does not delegate authority, putting all the weight on his shoulders. Way before the server was hacked and wiped(referred to as the recent blackout). The server was attacked and the files were partially compromised. Floppy had failed to ensure that a backup was made properly after it was compressed, causing us to revert to an October database of 2018, and the storages had to be taken out for balancing. Storages being taken out was a step in the wrong direction,  old players had an advantage over new players who were not playing before October. Old players had the ability to sell the cars that they had at the time for money or, if they were lucky, they’d have money in the bank which gave them a complete advantage over other civilians who started playing after the backup was made.

 

Also, the current website isn’t secure, you can check in the top left of your corner next to your web link. I believe that if we are accepting donations, that we should secure the website, even if we only use PayPal which is secure. Regardless though, the website should be secured for anyone who may use the same email and password on another personal account, like their bank account for instance. That person has now possibly compromised themselves. I have checked and found out that this website uses Cloudflare as a protective service, which is at least a step in the right direction towards anti-hacking.

 

Currently, the community has often received little to no communication from the development team to the people in the community. And even if communication was made, it was often not made clearly visible to all. Back when Amelia was lead dev, communication was on point and the community received what was required/requested. The main purpose of this post is a red flag to Floppy about how he should delegate, and assess the ability of his own team of staff and developers to do his workload for him, and for him to step back away from areas he has appointed people to work on.


@Floppy Pancakes

Edited by Garrett Williams
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Amelia Knightly, What an amazing person. I've not met her personally but the stories I've heard of her are so soothing to me. I wish one day I can meet someone as astonishing or astounding as her. I also hope that I can one day converse with her. She was the best thing this community had and we lost it. Let's Remember her by giving everyone on this post confused faces. If you knew her she would always do that to her close friends and just about anyone. If anyone wants to grieve with me. Message me. ❤️ God Bless. Franklin Fish Out. If Amelia Knightly is seeing this. Please, Amelia, message me. I think we could really hit it off. I would love to see you. You seem perfect. My discord is Digger#0911 or you can Email me at [email protected] 

Edited by Franklin Fish
I was Wrong. I am now right X5
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-----

I care about the community and just want to see it be better. I think we all want better communication. 

Edited by Rex Hughes
I am stupid and saw reasoning.

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51 minutes ago, Garrett Williams said:

Also, the current website isn’t secure, you can check in the top left of your corner next to your web link. I believe that if we are accepting donations, that we should secure the website, even if we only use PayPal which is secure. Regardless though, the website should be secured for anyone who may use the same email and password on another personal account, like their bank account for instance. That person has now possibly compromised themselves. I have checked and found out that this website uses Cloudflare as a protective service, which is at least a step in the right direction towards anti-hacking.

The forums are using a SSL certificate provided through Cloudflare, however the server is not setup to automatically redirect to the https variant.

I do believe you're misunderstanding what a SSL certificate actually does.  There are no donations accepted through the website itself, you're redirected to PayPal to make those donations and PayPal sends a response back to the forums with no identifying information back that ties your donation to your account with the amount and such.

A SSL certificate encrypts the traffic between your web browser and the server, it does not encrypt data on the server itself -- that's down to the forum software itself for making sure that things are properly encrypted.

Adding on to that, Cloudflare isn't really a protective service, sure it helps with DDoS attacks and helping mask where the actual server is hosted, but I really wouldn't consider it "protection".

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Just now, Rex Hughes said:

the server has been having major issues on even staying up

There was a FiveM update yesterday specifically targetting an issue where malicious users could crash servers, without knowing anything further I'd almost assume that was our issue.

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24 minutes ago, Ernest Flanagan said:

There was a FiveM update yesterday specifically targetting an issue where malicious users could crash servers, without knowing anything further I'd almost assume that was our issue.

Yesterday's update did fix an attack where users found out how to mess with input validation, but the server has been crashing before June 1st update, whereafter the June 1st update it is often rumoured that the users had gained access from that update. Even then the server has been crashing randomly after the blackout for no apparent reason, if it was the input validation that was being manipulated that crashed the servers the developers would have noticed it earlier on, The attacks where rumored to start on June 4th or 5th on June 8th the developers released artifact 1313 which solved the problem, But was not somehow publicly announced until yesterday. 

Edited by Garrett Williams

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2 minutes ago, Garrett Williams said:

Yesterday's update did fix an attack where users found out how to mess with input validation, but the server has been crashing before June 1st update, whereafter the June 1st update it is often rumoured that the users had gained access from that update. Even then the server has been crashing randomly after the blackout for no apparent reason, if it was the input validation that was being manipulated that crashed the servers the developers would have noticed it earlier on, The attacks where rumored to start on June 4th or 5th on June 8th the developers released artifact 1313 which solved the problem. 

Can we please not go down the rabbithole of "rumors" that people have gained access to the server?

That's a bad road to go down.

It's entirely possible that the input validation issue has existed before and has just now been patched, if that's even the issue that our server's have been experiencing in general.

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5 minutes ago, Ernest Flanagan said:

Can we please not go down the rabbithole of "rumors" that people have gained access to the server?

That's a bad road to go down.

It's entirely possible that the input validation issue has existed before and has just now been patched, if that's even the issue that our server's have been experiencing in general.

 

By gaining access I meant to the input validation glitch, Not the server files which is not an option if you're basically only using Input Validation.

Edited by Garrett Williams

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Development is a voluntary thing and maybe not all the devs know how to do everything.  Six weeks or so ago, we didn't even have a server and it's taken a lot of work to get it to where it is now.  I honestly think we need to exercise some patience and I think that even without this post, Floppy is well aware of the concerns at the minute.  Maybe try looking at both sides of this.  Developers are working their asses off, we're getting patches most weeks and trying to balance it with full time work and also actually playing the game.  I am married to an indie game dev and I know first hand that negative comments when you're working your butt off is so demoralising - I'm not saying you don't have the right to criticise but be aware of how your actions affect people who are already stressed out working hard.  It contributes so much to burnout.

Edited by Darcy Reid
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Can we not Bash the unpaid devs who do everything to try and make this place enjoyable for people..? people that are taking time out of the personal lives and play time in the city and out..... for as long as ive been here in this community ive never seen anything but improvement and unique things to our community and its amazing to see. so starting a thread like this hurtful and stressful.

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This is a list of things discussed in the last community meeting.

SmartSelect_20190611-061413_Chrome.jpg

Development updates are mentioned in the community meeting each month as well as questions submitted to the Google form are answered. Most of our devs are willing to listen. The large wipe took a huge hit on all of us and for some even our moral to continue. Telling someone who is literally giving all of their free time here that they aren't doing good enough is beating down our already beaten moral. 

Now I am not speaking for all of staff and I am not a dev, but we already had one post bashing our 4-6 volunteer developers that they aren't doing well enough, a second post doing the same doesn't help anything just pushes people to either LOA or leave all together. All of them are doing their best, you could at least have the courtesy of being patient and understanding. Amelia was an excellent lead dev there is no doubt, and I know myself I am sad that she decided to leave after the blackout although understandable.

Development does weekly patch notes and once a month discuss projects and such in the community meeting. What more specifically would you like from them in regards to communicating.

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This coming from the same person who wasn't listening to a staff member, and instead, told them to "learn how to code" while laughing. When you have to preface a post with "This is not an attack towards floppy" yet mention my name several times, it really makes people question the heart of your message. Further, the contents of your post really to show that you don't know what you are talking about. You have a *few* valid points, but sadly, the rest seems to be that you are simply un-informed about the topics of which you speak. While I do think this post is meant to bash me (which, you even admit this is to bring up the negatives), I'm going to leave the post up for now, just in case something productive comes from it.

I would like to ask Garrett, what bugs have you noticed, big or small?

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I have been apart of the staff team of Revo for just under two years now. I have taken one break of 7 weeks at the start of this year due to personal issues, but otherwise have spent a good majority of my spare time (sometimes even work hours) helping out this community. A few months ago, it wasn’t the dev team under fire, it was the admin team, so I feel I speak from experience when I express my feelings about the way people have been speaking about the dev team. Back in December/January, as an admin team, no matter what we did or how we approached things, there was always someone in the community unhappy with our efforts. This is now what is happening to the dev team. It gets to the point were you no longer enjoy the place you work so hard for because you no longer get to RP. For every hour spent in the server, in the TS or on the forums, there is 30 messages from people asking questions and not following the chain of command for support.

All of us are human, we aren’t robots, we don’t have hours in the day that don’t exist. Just because things can’t be pushed immediately, doesn’t mean there isn’t a dev trying their hardest to figure it our. While everyone has the right to criticize, think about the people who are working day and night to provide a free place for you to come and hangout and how your criticisms could be affecting them. Think about the support staff who are putting in LOA’s because of the way they are being jumped on in TS channels. Think about the amount of effort people have been putting into this community over the past few weeks, months and years that many people are just dismissing.

Amelia left, and while unfortunate, it was her decision to leave in the end. We have a dev team who is trying their best, and producing some amazing shit. I joined the dev team as a junior dev back in February as I am a graphic designer who wanted to help with HTML/CSS stuff. Even though I have to have my hand held with everything I try, at least I am giving it a go. I know I can’t code, but any time Jasmine or one of our other devs asks me to help test, I’m there in the server immediately. We all have different levels of skill, we all have different abilities, doesn’t mean we aren’t trying.

We have weathered so much as a community. We have some new people, we have some people who have been here from the start of GTA RP and we have some who have been here since the ARMA days. The people who are still here after all this time and have stuck through so much shit are here for the community. When something is broken, they put in a bug report and they work around it. When a dev needs help testing, or needs suggestions, they put their hand up. They don’t just sit back and expect, expect, expect. I would like to say that Darcy is the example here. Darcy saw people requesting hair cuts that other servers had and people in our server wanted and EMS uniforms that make the department look more uniform and rather than demanding it from a dev, she went out, figured it out and then asked if a dev could implement it after she developed the uniforms and code. Darcy isn’t a dev, she doesn’t want to be, but she wanted something, saw other people wanting it and she did an awesome job of getting it in. If you think you know how to get something server ready, or you think you know someone who does know how, then send them our way, because as much as I might sound like a bitch writing this, if you are not willing to help, if you are not willing to learn, why are you so willing to criticize when this is a community that is provided to you for no cost to your money, and no cost to your time?

I know I typed a lot. I know it might not all make sense. But I personally am angry because we have staff who are quite upset about the way they have been spoken to over the past few days. We have staff taking breaks because they just want to enjoy this community and people are blaming them for issues that they are no way responsible for. Maybe take a look at what caused us to lose so much and blame the people responsible for tearing things down rather than blaming the people trying to put it back together. I will repeat this for the billionth time. We are all volunteers who are here because we love this community, don’t ruin our efforts.

http://forums.rmog.us/index.php?/forum/93-staff-application/

http://forums.rmog.us/index.php?/forum/96-developer-application/

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Like I have mentioned in another thread, I am willing to fund a paid developer position for the server. The final amount could be discussed, but I had something along the lines of $500 a month for consistent content creation and bug fixing. 

Depending on your situation that amount might be life changing if you have the skills, and a normal job isn't your thing. I am also sure that other members of the community could contribute to increase that monthly amount.

Ultimately I enjoy the servers and the community, and am willing to pay out of pocket to see it consistently improve and grow.

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Just now, Mike Michaelson said:

Like I have mentioned in another thread, I am willing to fund a paid developer position for the server. The final amount could be discussed, but I had something along the lines of $500 a month for consistent content creation and bug fixing. 

Depending on your situation that amount might be life changing if you have the skills, and a normal job isn't your thing. I am also sure that other members of the community could contribute to increase that monthly amount.

Ultimately I enjoy the servers and the community, and am willing to pay out of pocket to see it consistently improve and grow.

Even if mike does that im pretty sure if some developers streamed there coding or anything a lot of us would donate. I know i would.

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I don't think I have any right to comment on development or bug fixes, and I understand this is not an easy thing to fix.

What I will say though is I've heard from a lot of friends/viewers that they've tried to join the server and spent hours on end in the support channel. Its very disheartening to watch my girlfriend wait all day to get her TS tags, but then staff to only attend when I join the channel and get spoke to before her. It feels like new players are not wanted or welcome. Sadly, one close friend waited 3 days to get tags just to get disconnected 3 times by server crashes.

I think organising support would be a good step in the right direction. 

Edited by Billy Sprinkle
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People have said it better than I have but the Devs are working for free for a server that is free to join. So while criticism can be helpful maybe you should find a more constructive way to give it. I will say this Amelia was a great dev and will be missed but we've had Devs, Admins, and both LEO and EMS command members leave before and the server has still continued to keep going. Hell only 5 months ago we had a peak player count of 10-15 players on the server and now we can fill 2 servers so I would say everyone has done a great job in promoting and keeping the server alive. Now we have some issues but the best way to deal with them is to work together as a community and maybe we can grow further. 

Edited by Liam Cavanagh

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People need to remain patient. Although the current situation is frustrating, it’s not like they’ve thrown their hands up in the air and said “f it”. If it bothers you that much of the current state of the server, go to a different one, take your friends with you, and if you feel like returning to Revo when it’s in that appealing state that we all reminisce about, by all means, come back. You can do whatever you so please, i don’t think anyone is going to hold it against you. I’m not saying don’t add input of criticism, I’m just saying be a little more courteous in how you express/say it. I’m guilty myself of complaining about the current situation. I mean, shoot, just the other day me and a friend had 400 coke on us on our way to sell it and make bank. Guess what? Server crashed, we lost it all. Did I complain about it? You bet I did, who wouldn’t?  but why whine about something consistently that you can’t control? Just move on and lick your wounds, it’s not the end of the world. The devs can’t just snap their fingers and say “Eureka! We’ve done it” and bring back complete harmony. If anything I think they need more help from us. To the devs: if you need help, it doesn’t hurt to constantly remind the community that if anyone is interested to apply for dev’ing, do it! It doesn’t hurt to admit you need help or are under manned. And that definitely goes for staff, support, etc. as well. 

As for what @Billy Sprinkle said, I would say that happens way too often. Yes, many have IRL jobs, they’re just volunteers yada yada yada, but from my POV, and I’m not saying it directed at anyone personally, but in general, I have seen favoritism occur waaaay too frequently in many aspects regarding the server. That is not a bone I’m going to pick at though any further. 

Have a nice day everyone.

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2 minutes ago, Robert Graves said:

People need to remain patient. Although the current situation is frustrating, it’s not like they’ve thrown their hands up in the air and said “f it”. If it bothers you that much of the current state of the server, go to a different one, take your friends with you, and if you feel like returning to Revo when it’s in that appealing state that we all reminisce about, by all means, come back. You can do whatever you so please, i don’t think anyone is going to hold it against you. I’m not saying don’t add input of criticism, I’m just saying be a little more courteous in how you express/say it. I’m guilty myself of complaining about the current situation. I mean, shoot, just the other day me and a friend had 400 coke on us on our way to sell it and make bank. Guess what? Server crashed, we lost it all. Did I complain about it? You bet I did, who wouldn’t?  but why whine about something consistently that you can’t control? Just move on and lick your wounds, it’s not the end of the world. The devs can’t just snap their fingers and say “Eureka! We’ve done it” and bring back complete harmony. If anything I think they need more help from us. To the devs: if you need help, it doesn’t hurt to constantly remind the community that if anyone is interested to apply for dev’ing, do it! It doesn’t hurt to admit you need help or are under manned. And that definitely goes for staff, support, etc. as well. 

As for what @Billy Sprinkle said, I would say that happens way too often. Yes, many have IRL jobs, they’re just volunteers yada yada yada, but from my POV, and I’m not saying it directed at anyone personally, but in general, I have seen favoritism occur waaaay too frequently in many aspects regarding the server. That is not a bone I’m going to pick at though any further. 

Have a nice day everyone.

There's no denying favouritism occurs, I've watched many of my friends being treated differently during situation that evolved us all. I witnessed the worst case of metagaming and powergaming the day I joined. I watched a big fellow streamer friend play to just get sandbagged, ignored and even thrown a passive aggression attitude to incite a group hatred toward said person.

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Other than talking about Floppy and mentioning that they'd like more communication between the devs and the community, or at least have the communication we have be more visible/announced/pinned/whatever, where did he bash the devs? I personally didn't read it as bashing the devs and I kind of would like to see some quotes so I can try to see it from your perspective. I guess if you take the opinion of things being on point when Amelia was here and not so much now, it can be viewed that way. I just would like to see exactly what people are referring to or if they are referring to the entire post as a bash against the devs.

Edit: Along with Billy's post, I've had 2 friends not come to Revo because of the wait times for tags. It always bums you out when you want to help someone get into RP but then they have to go through this bottleneck and just give up on it all together because they don't want to start by themselves.

Edited by Lena Tesla

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Voting to remove this thread.

 

If there were any innocent intentions to begin with, they're massively overshadowed by a rather too-generously offered hositility.

 

"This is not an attack towards floppy, this is an attempt to help better our community."

 

Also in the same post...

 

"This is due to Floppy's oversight of the community."

"Floppy does not delegate authority, putting all the weight on his shoulders."

"Floppy had failed to ensure that a backup was made properly after it was compressed"

"And for him [Floppy] to step back away from areas he has appointed people to work on."

 

 

 

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I dont think the vast majority of people realise just how stressful and hard work it is running and developing a community.

I cant speak for now, but when I was a dev and admin here, floppy delegated authority and duties out to us and trusted us to see the job done, and it was. So unless you are actively a member of the staff or dev team, i cant see how you could possibly know what happens?

I have extended an offer out to Flop if he needs help with anything since the setback recently, you know where I am if you need me mate.

 

Also someone add my doge back to the shoutbox!

 

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I think that staff are doing what they can, given the communities recent circumstances. We've all taken a hard hit, and we're all waiting for the same things (storage,  housing, businesses, etc.) I understand that its frustrating, but I try to make the best out of it for myself, and others. Maybe a bit of transparency would help a lot here because it certainly feels like more work is done than is easily visible to the public. A community I once moderated/administrated for used a public Trello to show the end users what all has been fixed/added/planned along an easy-to-read timeline. This would mitigate some of the times where the patch notes on joining the servers are a surprise. For things like that, its just showing the users that progress IS being made. 

 

Additionally, I've been debating internally on putting in an app to dev but I've not touched GTA modding specifically, FiveM environments, and dont have much time w/ SQL. However, I'd be down to learn and lend a hand here to help get this community going on all cylinders. I've got some questions on what the technicals of the dev environment are if someone would like to shoot me a PM and I can see where it parallels w/ what I already know.

 

TLDR; We're all hurting, but be patient, good things will come. Transparency regarding any progress would mitigate threads like this one.

 

To staff: You guys are doing a great job to be standing tall given the onslaught of issues we've experienced within the past few months. Keep it up, stay awesome.

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